Meeting documents

Apologies were received from Mr Doug Anson, Mrs Margaret Aston and Mr Steve Kennell.

Mrs Diane Rutter sent her apologies for agenda item 3.

Martin Phillips is Chairman of Youth Amersham.

Jenny Puddefoot is Chairman of Youth Concern, Aylesbury.

Lesley Clarke is Chairman of Youth Action.

Contributors:

• Cora Cavey, Chief Executive Officer, Community Impact Bucks
• Diane Rutter, Head of Voluntary Sector Support, Community Impact Bucks

Purpose: To enable members to hear the views of the voluntary and community sector about their experiences of contracting with Buckinghamshire County Council. This will also provide the opportunity to seek views on any possible improvements to the County Council’s procurement processes.

The Chairman introduced Cora Carvey, Chief Executive Officer at Community Impact Bucks.

Ms Carvey started by saying that she recognised that the world is an ever changing place and there is a need for honesty and transparency.  She said that Council specifications tend to be quite process driven and felt that the pipeline does not look far enough ahead.  She explained that it takes a lot of time and effort to out together a consortium which also requires a lot of honesty and transparency on the part of those who are taking part.

Ms Carvey went on to say that the voluntary sector is known for its innovation and she said that she would like to see the specification be more outcome focussed and to focus on achievements.  She would also like to see the TUPE requirements to be under-written as part of the process.  Ms Carvey said that she would be very willing to assist the County Council in designing tender specifications which are attractive to the voluntary sector.

During her presentation, Ms Carvey made the following main points and Members asked the following questions.

• The same system should be used for monitoring the contract to ensure there is consistency across the board.
• Competitive tendering should only used when absolutely necessary as it is costly to go through the whole tender process.
• A change in service provider means there can be a delay in service delivery because new volunteers need to be found.
• Leicester County Council and Sheffield County Council have developed very good E-tendering sites.  They have also received lottery funding to build a consortium to ensure effective tendering takes place.
• A Member agreed that the focus of all specifications should be on outcomes.  In terms of competitive tendering, as a Local Authority, there is a duty to get value for money therefore if the Council does not go out to tender, then it cannot prove this.  The Member felt that there should be a change in protocols and expressed concern that the Council may not always be getting value for money.  Ms Carvey responded by saying that she completely understands the requirements for competitive tendering but she said that it would be helpful if the weighting could be given to the different criteria in the process.
• A Member felt that the focus should be on best value and not cost.
• A Member said that competitive tendering is very difficult as there is a need to support voluntary organisations against the need to demonstrate value for money.
• Ms Carvey explained that Community Impact Bucks (CIS) does look at ways for local groups to compete competitively so that the money stays within the County.  She said that CIS works closely with the County Council to try and achieve it.
• A Member commented that as all contracts need to be closely monitored, it is easier to monitor one large organisation than lots of smaller ones.  Another Member went on to say that this is not always the case as  ...  view the full minutes text for item 3.

Contributors:

• Gillian Hibberd, Strategic Director, Resources and Business Transformation
• Frank Downes, Cabinet Member for Resources

Purpose: To enable members to question the Strategic Director and Cabinet Member on current and future plans on procurement. 

[Marion Clayton and Lesley Clarke leave the meeting at 2.55pm]

The Chairman welcomed Gillian Hibberd, Strategic Director for Resources and Business Transformation and Frank Downes, Cabinet Member for Resources.

During discussion, the following questions were asked and concerns raised.

• A Member asked what the status of the Contract Management Framework (CMF) was as the Member felt that it makes a number of assumptions which they felt unsure about.  The Member felt that it was a done deal and it was about to be rolled out to other service areas.  The Strategic Director explained that the CMF is a document to help the service areas to improve their contract management and better manage the process.  She went on to say that there is an acceptance that the number of contracts will increase in future, therefore there was a need to improve the quality and effectiveness of contract management.
• The Commercial Board looks at contracts over £1/2 million and overseas the implementation of contracts.  The larger contracts are approved by the Cabinet Members, for example, outsourcing projects.  The Cabinet Member went on to explain that before it goes to Cabinet, the Leaders Advisory Group would discuss it and any issues are fleshed out at this stage.
• A Member said that they felt a basic level of commercial awareness is essential for all people who are involved in contracts.  The CMF implies that tasks do not need to be undertaken by a commercial expert and the Member expressed concern about this.  The Cabinet Member explained that the dividing line is thin as both sides need to be happy with the arrangements.  If expertise is required, then it is brought in externally.  The Member went on to say that he was referring to contract management and it states in the CMF that officers do not need commercial awareness but the Member felt that this skill is essential.  The Member questioned whether the document was commercially sound.  The Strategic Director explained that commercial awareness and contract management are both very important and getting people with the right skills is very important.  She went on to say that Graham Collins wrote the document and suggested that any concerns about the document should be directed to him.
• The Cabinet Member said that, in the past, the technical skills have always been there but the contract management skills have been lacking in the past.
• A Member commented that the Task and Finish Group had heard from two heads of service to ascertain their take on contract management and it highlighted an absence of consistency in this area.
• The Cabinet Member explained that you have to have expertise in-house in order to be able to manage the contract properly.  A Member went on to say that if you outsource to the right organisation then you need a professional contract manager.  The Cabinet Member stressed that in his experience, you should never contract out a problem as this only compounds the issue.  You need to retain  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

The next meeting will be held on Friday 21 January 2011 at 1pm in Phoenix 3.

This meeting provides Members with the opportunity to discuss key findings and recommendations, as well as findings from the Hays Task & Finish Group, in advance of formally agreeing the procurement report.

The next meeting is due to take place on Friday 21 January.