Agenda and minutes

Apologies for absence were submitted by Cllr Carroll (Buckinghamshire Council) (Cllr Newcombe Substituting), Cllr Chapman (Cherwell District Council) (Cllr McHugh substituting) (Cllr McHugh substituting) and Cllr Culverhouse (Buckinghamshire Council – co-optee).

To agree the Minutes of the meeting held on 23 June 2023.

The Minutes of the Panel meeting held on 23 June 2023 were agreed as a correct record.

Anyone who works or lives in the Thames Valley can ask a question at meetings of the Police and Crime Panel, at which a 20 minute session will be designated for hearing from the public.

If you’d like to participate, please read the Public Question Time Scheme and submit your questions by email to tvpcp@buckinghamshire.gov.uk at least three working days in advance of the meeting.

Mr Andrew Hill attended the meeting and asked the following questions:

(1)   My understanding is that the panel scrutinises the PCC, and delivery of his crime plan. In the PCC’s crime plan he states (page7) that:

“In tackling the exploitation of vulnerable adults and children, we will not lose sight of the high levels of acquisitive and environmental crime that is also perpetrated by serious organised crime groups. Resources invested in this area will have an impact in reducing many of the crimes that concern the public most in their communities.”

and (page 15) that “environmental crime” is a strategy to be “developed”.

Given that Thames Valley Police have no dedicated environmental crime officer, and (by its own admission) little or no expertise in the complex law surrounding environmental crimes, what steps has the PCC actually taken to “develop” strategies on environmental crime, and how does this panel routinely monitor progress this specific type of serious crime that often “concern[s] the public most”?”

Answer

[The PCC replied that the anticipated strategy produced by his office which is still part of his Police and Criminal Justice Plan, is a four year plan. He was two years into the Plan, and he had never suggested that this work would have been developed by now. The PCC said he was working with TVP and there was a growing capacity to deal with fly tipping and other environmental crime in most areas.

On most occasions, fly tipping was a responsibility for local authorities who all had a good relationship with the police. There was a very good rural crime partnership on a local level which involved Environmental Health Officers, Community Safety Partnership officers and officers from local Neighbourhood Teams worked closely on fly tipping.

However, there were issues around fly tipping on an industrial scale and that was where the Force liaised with the Environmental Agency who may be the appropriate prosecuting authority. The Rural Crime Taskforce took the lead on these. The Rural Crime Strategy was developed by the Force which would include environmental crimes.

The Chair also replied that local authorities had their way of dealing with fly tipping.

The questioner also referenced wildlife crime which was also an environmental crime. The PCC replied that the Force did prosecute wildlife crimes and referred to the prosecution of the sale of whales’ teeth.

The Panel agreed that a report on the work of the Rural Crime Task Force (to include wildlife crimes) be added to the work programme.] [ACTION PCC/Scrutiny Officer]     

(2)   Agenda item 11 notes the record 5% increase in police precepts across the UK. The PCC issued a statement to all council taxpayers saying that the maximum precept of £15 should be collected.  A request above £15 is classed as “excessive” and would have triggered a referendum.

In the Royal Borough Of Windsor and Maidenhead, the PCC actively campaigned during the local elections to support the conservative party plan for warrant officer funding above the referendum trigger, with around £250k for  ...  view the full minutes text for item 15.

11.05am

The report of the PCC provides an overview of the progress of the Force Review to date, and the remaining work to complete.

It explains the expected benefits of the changes proposed through the Force Review on Local Policing and in particular to Neighbourhood Policing, as well as the changes for Crime & Criminal Justice. It sets out the current savings position and plans for delivery of the agreed savings.

The report of the PCC provided an overview of the progress of the Force Review to date, and the remaining work to complete.

It explained the expected benefits of the changes proposed through the Force Review on Local Policing and in particular to Neighbourhood Policing, as well as the changes for Crime & Criminal Justice. The current savings position and plans for delivery of the agreed savings were also provided.

The PCC reported that the move to 5 Local Command Units would release resource for neighbourhood policing. Upon completion of the first three phases of the Force Review would deliver over £8m of savings.

Details of the structural changes and the impact on Thames Valley were reported.

The five-area model would consist of Local Command Units in Oxfordshire, Berkshire West, Berkshire East, Buckinghamshire and Milton Keynes.

A Member referred to the lack of detail provided in the report in relation to the configuration of the Local Command Units and that the first three phases of the Force Review had been completed with little information available for the Panel. 

Members’ Questions

(1)   A Member referred to the paragraph on crime and criminal justice which was brief and did not provide enough information on the new Crime and Criminal Justice structure which was required. The PCC was asked to provide a more substantial report to a future meeting.

[The PCC replied that the report focused on local policing and was what the Panel had requested, however, he was more than happy to bring a fuller report back on the new Crime and Criminal Justice structure, linking it in with the wider custody 2025 strategy which looks at the locations of custody, staffing scale, what other services could be co-located. A conversation had taken place with the Head of Criminal Justice at how people in custody could be looked after.] [ACTION : PCC] 

(2)   A Member commented that neighbourhood policing had been effectively delivered in his area with the teams strengthened and higher visibility. Reference is made to neighbourhood policing, community policing and local policing; it needed to be clearer on what these definitions were.

[The PCC reported that in Thames Valley, local policing would describe those officers who were locally geographically based and under a local commander and part of the local response teams. Neighbourhood policing are in neighbourhoods, to be preventative. Community policing were involved in the wider community engagement and would involve the use of Special Constables, working with retailers (tackling shoplifting).

(3)   In relation to neighbourhood policing, the number of police officers had increased, but the number of Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) had reduced. The PCC was asked whether there had been a cost benefit analysis and were there any Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) to monitor performance after the implementation of the changes brought about by the review. The PCC was also asked to assure the Panel that there would be a crime reduction with this review.   

[The PCC replied that the increase in constables in geographic neighbourhood  ...  view the full minutes text for item 16.

11.35am

The PCC has submitted a report which updates the Panel on police recruitment and retention in TVP, which includes further detail/progress of Race/BAME initiatives.

The Panel was reminded that at its meeting in November 2022 an update was provided on police officer and recruitment.  The report of the PCC provided a report which updated Members on police recruitment and retention in TVP, which included further detail and progress of Race/BAME initiatives.

Particular attention was given to the work carried out on retention in TVP, although retention was not just an issue for TVP. Police officers had a pay rise of 7% and officers in TVP received a South East Allowance which was capped. However, TVP was competing with the Met Police where officers received a bigger salary.

Work had been carried out on retention measures such as providing free parking for officers at Police stations, rail discounts, and the proposal for Special Constables to receive a Council Tax discount and to be provided with local discounts.

Members’ Questions

(1)   The PCC was asked whether a metric was maintained for the average length of service for response officers as this was low for the Met Police. Reference was made to the need for officers who turned up to investigate a crime or attend a public order incident were sufficiently experienced.   

[The PCC replied that he completely agreed on the experience point. He did not have the average length of service to hand, but discussions did take place with the Chief Constable and his management team on workforce monitoring.

The PCC commented that new recruits may decide that policing was not for them, but in fairness they put themselves forward to do a difficult and stressful job. The role of the Assessment Centre was to get the right people in post.]

(2)   The PCC was asked about a Ministry of Defence (MOD) Police intake and the advertisement of the trial programme and whether the quality and diversity of applicants was of a good standard and that the process was transparent and gave an equality of opportunity.

[The PCC replied that MOD police were recruited for specific purpose and those with firearm skills were particularly helpful in terms of the specialism skills. New recruits still had to go through the recruitment process and through vetting but recruits from the armed forces had a transferable skill set. The pool of applicants was big enough to ensure there was a competitive and transparent recruitment process.] 

(3)    In relation to diversity, this was a strength, however, with Thames Valley having a BAME representation of 19.8%, TVP only had 6.5% BAME representation. The PCC was asked how would the culture of TVP change to attract more applicants and recruits from BAME communities?

[The PCC referred to the Positive Action Engagement Team, who worked with the Force around opportunity. Recruitment events were held in the evening, in areas traditionally where Police did not go. This was proactively proving that the Force wanted to recruit people who represented the Thames Valley Community. The PCC referred to individuals who had expressed a desire to join the Police but had been put off, by their  ...  view the full minutes text for item 17.

12.05pm

To receive an update from the PCC on the Contact Management Centre which includes an update on the performance of “101” Calls and on-line reporting.

The Panel was provided with an update from the PCC on the Contact Management Centre which includes an update on the performance of “101” Calls and on-line reporting.

The Chair thanked Superintendent Bullivant and his staff for hosting a visit by several Panel Members to the Contact Management Centre.

The PCC reported that there had been problems making 999 calls from Samsung mobile phones has there had been an update to the firmware, where pressing the side button on the mobile phone, put the caller through to the emergency services. There had been hundreds of thousands calls made from these devices which had inadvertently dialled 999. This caused a big issue to police handling centres nationwide.

There had been significant calls coming in, which had caused operational problems. The PCC referred to callers to 101 who called 999 when they could not get an answer.

The PCC provided an update on some of the developments which would be taking place to improve performance.      

Members’ Questions

1.      The PCC was asked about the plans to recruit because of the deficiency in numbers and the programme to recruit would be implemented by July 2024. The PCC was asked if there was a way this implementation day could be brought forward to deal with the deficiency issues. In addition, the PCC was asked about the suitability of the shift patterns for staff and whether flexibility could be given to this.

[The PCC said he would take this away and have a look at the practicalities of bringing this date forward.]

A Member expressed his thanks for enabling Panel Members to visit the call handling centre and referred to the human element of this operation where staff worked remarkably well with limited resources. The pressure the call handlers worked under was immense and their work was stressful. They required care and attention, and the message should be passed onto the public to be more patient and understanding of the situation.    

A Member referred to the offer given to Panel Members to sit and observe at a local control room which he would recommend.

2.      A Member referred to a call he had made to 999 and which was referred to another force area because of the volume of calls and that this call was in relation to a live crime. The PCC was asked why were calls answered by non-Thames Valley call handlers?    

[The PCC replied that calls could be referred to other force areas (Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire) during busy periods. There was an anomaly when calling 999 if the caller when using a mobile phone was close to the border of another force area, with that call referred to that force area.]   

3.      The PCC was asked about on-line reporting and how could this be increased to relieve the pressure on 101 and 999 calls. The PCC was asked if there were targets set to improve the use of on-line reporting. In addition, in relation to abandoned calls, there were also some calls  ...  view the full minutes text for item 18.

12.35pm

The PCC provides a report on Operation Deter which combines two approaches; a more robust criminal justice approach to adults found in possession of an offensive weapon, and for young people, earlier and intensive intervention through the Youth Offending Team Act Now programme which aims to divert them from the criminal justice system and prevent further offending.

The PCC provided a report on Operation Deter which combined two approaches; a more robust criminal justice approach to adults found in possession of an offensive weapon, and for young people, earlier and intensive intervention through the Youth Offending Team Act Now programme which aimed to divert them from the criminal justice system and prevent further offending.

The PCC referred to the work on under 18s and referred to the work in Milton Keynes and Slough by the Youth Offending Teams (YOTs)on Achieving Change Together – Now (ACT) programme. He was hoping that the under 18s process in custody would operate across Thames Valley.

Initially, the PCC funded the YOTs, but this could not continue. For Milton Keynes YOT, the local authority had part funded the team as well as the PCC. It was hoped that funding could be received from the Home Office through the Homicide Prevention Fund. It needed to link in the YOTs and custody suites.

Work took place with Oxfordshire County Council for Oxfordshire and with Buckinghamshire Council for Buckinghamshire, but it was more complicated with Berkshire. For example, if you were in Loddon Valley which was in the Bracknell and Wokingham LPA, the greatest number of knife offences were likely to come in from Reading. Would Reading Borough Council fund a YOT where the custody suite was in Loddon Valley, Wokingham?

There needed to be a formula with Berkshire local authorities on funding and who was host it. The under 18s programme was valuable in terms of early intervention for people who have already carried a weapon. Engagement with young people is so important and it was important that there was partnership work with local authorities.          

Members’ Questions

(1)   A Member referred to a good initiative in terms of getting offenders to court quickly. However, there were problems with terminology, when an offensive weapon was not referred to as a bladed or sharply pointed article. There were too many people employed in the Criminal Justice System who have failed to make that leap in the terminology because it is easier to prove the offense relating to offensive weapons.

On the statistics in the report, there were 694 arrests across the whole of Thames Valley (July 2022 – 31 May 2023), however, there were still 327 cases outstanding. The PCC was asked if he would submit a more detailed report to a future meeting with greater detail on the statistics. Also, the PCC was asked what did the term “straight to prison mean”. Was it from people who were on licence for carrying offensive weapons and effectively their licences have been withdrawn and they were now in prison? 

[The PCC made the point that he could not directly get involved in the charging route area as it was operational. However, the PCC commented that the approach was right. The figures were for the first six month and he would be happy to provide further figures.[ACTION: PCC]  

The PCC talked about timescales of getting prosecutions  ...  view the full minutes text for item 19.

12.50pm

The Panel is asked to give consideration to the Chair’s suggestion to the formation of two Task and Finish Groups to enable the PCP to scrutinise how the PCC holds the Chief Constable account in two areas:- Strategy for Violence against Women and Children and on Road Safety.

The Panel was asked to give consideration to the Chair’s suggestion to the formation of two Task and Finish Groups to enable the Panel to scrutinise how the PCC holds the Chief Constable account in two areas:- Strategy for Violence against Women and Children and on Road Safety.

Terms of reference for the proposed Task and Finish Groups were attached for Members’ information.

Members were asked to contact the Scrutiny Officer to the Panel if they wished to become members of the Task and Finish Groups.

RESOLVED – (1) That approval be given to the setting up of two Task and Finish Groups - Strategy for Violence against Women and Children and on Road Safety.

(2) That approval be given to the draft terms of reference, and it agreed that the Road Safety Task and Finish Group reports back to the Panel in January 2024 and the Violence against Women and Children Task and Finish Group reports back to the Panel in March 2024.

(3) That the Chair, in consultation with the Scrutiny Officer, be given delegated authority to agree the membership of the Task and Finish Groups.

Subsequent to the meeting, the membership of the two Task and Finish Groups as follows:

Strategy for Violence against Women and Children

Cllr Aziz, Cllr Culverhouse, Cllr Poole and Pamela Mackenzie-Reilly (1 vacancy)

Road Safety

Cllr Brazier, Cllr McLean, Cllr Rowland, Cllr Shaik and Cllr Webber

13.00pm

The report of the Panel’s Complaints Sub-Committee was noted.

13.05pm

To note and ask questions of the PCC on the topical issues report.

Members’ Questions

(1)   The PCC was asked for assurance that TVP turned up for theft (shoplifting) from shops in view of the recent media reports that Police did not attend shops when shoplifting had taken place and had been picked up by CCTV? Also, where there were threats involved this amounted to attempted robbery.

[The PCC replied that he agreed that there needed to be improvement in this respect and referred to the shoplifting incidents in Co-Op supermarkets where the Police had not attended 999 calls. He had meetings with big names in retail, including the Co-op and was excited at a possible Thames Valley wide Business / Crime partnership. He was looking at procuring a new system to improve reporting of such offences.

The PCC acknowledged that he does not think the Police have always got the judgement right in terms of attendance and follow up. Most retailers had a centrally controlled CCTV system which would support investigations.]   

A Member referred to juvenile offenders and how it was important to prevent this as there could be links to organised crime.

(2)   A Member asked whether there was dialogue around addiction and cost of living being a principal cause of theft from shops. Local shops such as Co-ops needed assurance regarding thefts as there were threats to move local shops out of areas where there were high levels of thefts.

[The PCC said he would have conversations with local branch managers to offer that assurance. There was a major impact of shoplifting; on the employment of staff who feel threatened. Although there was a cost of living crisis, this was still a crime although there needed to be a proportional approach to the crime.] 

The Topical Issues report was noted.       

13.15pm

For Panel Members to put forward items for the Work Programme including ideas for themed meetings.

The Panel received the Work Programme and the following were added:

Report of the Road Safety Task and Finish Group added to January 2024 meeting.

Report of the Strategy for Violence against Women and Children added to March 2024 meeting.

Operation Deter – Detailed Report on Statistics on outcome of arrests added to March 2024 meeting.

New Crime and Criminal Justice structure, linking it in with the wider custody 2025 strategy

March 2024 meeting.

Work of the Rural Crime Task Force (to include wildlife crimes)

March 2024 meeting.

Section 92 payments

January 2024 meeting.

Anti-Social Behaviour To be added to a future meeting.